PS3 hard to develop for? Tecmo says: Nope

mecha · Post by **mecha** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:09 am

I found this to be pretty interesting.

From Yosuke Hayashi, director of Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

"When we first got our hands on the hardware it took us a while to get back into the flow of working with Sony, because they way they do things is a little different," he explained.

"The developers that say it's too hard to develop for and complain about it are missing the point. It sounds like an excuse to the consumer to us.

"If you're going to do a project you have to do the best you can. It's like if you bought a CD and it sounded bad and the singer said it was because the studio and the engineer were no good. Ultimately it's up to that person to make sure they have the quality that's needed," he said.

Speaking proudly of Ninja Gaiden Sigma, he added: "Look at what were able to do and the quality we are able to achieve and that speaks for itself. I think people will be satisfied with what we were able to do. If we can do it then other people will be able to do it as well."

Sigma does look friggen amazing.

RurouniQ · Post by **RurouniQ** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:20 am

Ok, but keep in mind this is coming from the guys that made Ninja Gaiden, one of the hardest freaking games EVER. If someone took candy from a baby, and the baby started crying, this guy would probably lean in right into the baby's face and be like "What you crying for, you little pussy? You want that candy back, you go fucking get it!"

mecha · Post by **mecha** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:01 am

Whoa wait, the game's difficulty affects how the game is being developed?

So if Ninja Gaiden was easy, it would be harder to make on the PS3???

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:40 am

Mecha wrote:Whoa wait, the game's difficulty affects how the game is being developed?

So if Ninja Gaiden was easy, it would be harder to make on the PS3???

...

lol

Post by **BreakmanX** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:39 pm

RurouniQ wrote:Ok, but keep in mind this is coming from the guys that made Ninja Gaiden, one of the hardest freaking games EVER. If someone took candy from a baby, and the baby started crying, this guy would probably lean in right into the baby's face and be like "What you crying for, you little pussy? You want that candy back, you go fucking get it!"

You fucking Sophist. The Ps3 could do anything and Q would deny it. If anyone has read the account of the trial of Socrates, then you know what I am talking about. Sophists were people that made a living making arguments that weren't true.

generally refers to a particularly confusing, fallacious, illogical and/or insincere argument used by someone to make a point or for other motivations.

I think one of the issues we are facing with the Ps3 backlash, beyond the simple price point, is that people (and this is a completely natural psychological response) are justifying what they already have. The 360 has several known issues in regards to quality, but people already have them so they want to justify why it is better and why the newcomer isn't as good. I'm not saying the Ps3 is better.. The games will have to determine that in a few years, but I do think that the hardware is better. The amount of negative press associated with the Ps3 is unprecedented, and is largely a response to the consumer's negative reaction. Don't take this to mean that the Ps3 is perfect, though, because it is not. Like I've said all along, all three systems have something to offer. The 360 has some great shooting games, the ps3 has the most powerful (yet untested) hardware, and the Wii has truly unique gameplay.

I remember growing up and being so jealous of my friends that had all of the consoles in the SNES Genesis race, so I know how it is to be pissed at the other consoles. I only had a SNES until I got a Genesis for really cheap, at a pawn shop, at the end of its lifecycle. I never let my jealousy affect how I looked at the media, though. All these lines of division are so irritating to me. I'm sure they've always been there, but my group of friends growing up all just pooled our various games and systems. When a new game came out someone would rent it and then we'd go to whoever's house had the particular system.

I think it would be a great step forward if we could look at the positives of the systems. Granted, I have been really negative towards the 360, but I try to balance it since there is such an overwhelmingly positive popular opinion towards it. That fact of the matter is that the Xbox and the 360 are the only systems I've ever had problems with and my least favorite genre (FPS) is the dominant genre on the system. This is a smart move since it is the most popular genre, but I've just never been able to have much fun with it.

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:24 pm

Wow, I was in the OPPOSITE position of Break as a child. Everyone I knew had an SNES and I had a Genesis, so I was jealous of them for it (granted I did become pretty damn good at Sonic 2 and 3 as the years went on, but that's not the point, also, the only games I've played on the NES and SNES until the VC was available to me were: Super Mario Bros. 1, Star Fox, Donkey Kong Country, and I got a grand total of like 20 minutes of play time with all of them put together...).

I also didn't get to pool systems with friends because...I was frickin' 5 or 6 when we got our next system (everyone was rather secretive about it around me because I was a kid, and I would want to play the damn games), so by that time, I had just gotten a system and no one within 5 miles had an N64 until OoT came out, then 1 or 2 people within that range had an N64, and I still didn't get to play one until a year before the Cube made it's debut.

Moving past my history though...(which is ironic since I clearly grew up in settings where people hated Nintendo for no identifiable reason, and I'm being labeled the Nintendo fanboy here) I think that you're getting a bit nuts on Q. I mean, I do see why he would make his argument, even if I don't agree with it and can identify a major flaw with it (though Mecha already did that for me). I really don't think the argument he made qualifies him at a Sophist level yet since it really does make sense...to some people at least. The comment he made does rely a bit on perception of how we look at it.

If we look at it from a techincal point, then he's definitely wrong, because, as Mecha said, a game's difficulty doesn't relate AT ALL to how easy or hard it is to develop for the system. On the flip side, however, we have to look at the metaphorical side and see that Q's argument does hold some validity, being that the guys that worked on Ninja Gaiden are frickin' harsh, seeing that, if you're starving after staying almost a month on a desert island, these guys would walk up on shore, see you staving and then say "If you want us to feed you, you have to drag a 300 lb boulder around the island 9 times in 3 minues. By the way, the time you spend finding the boulder is subtracted from your running time. Ready, set, GO!"

To summarize:

Ninja Gaiden Development team easy = "OMFG!? I've lost all my limbs and been struck deaf and blind and I STILL have to go up to the top of Mt. Everest and live there for a week with absolutely no help or you guys will rip out the hearts of everyone I know and love!? Wtf's your problem?" In reality.

Vamp [Bot] · Post by **Vamp [Bot]** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:36 pm

My Dad had an Intellivision that I still remember playing when I was really, really young. I didn't get a NES 'till 1993, when I was 4. Then in like 1997 I got a Genesis, and didn't get a PS1 until 2001. Way, way behind the times, but in a way it worked out well because everything was a lot more affordable. I got a PS2 in 2003, the first console I'd ever bought within it's lifetime, and a few years later bought a DC, GCN, and an XBox within the span of a couple months.

The thing is I never really felt resentment towards anyone who owned a SNES when I had a Genesis (although I did towards people who owned an N64 or PS1 when I was still playing Sonic 2), both were pretty equally excellent in different ways; one system just had different games than the other, and it worked out well. I like that kind of system, which is why I thought the last generation worked out really well and why I really don't feel resentment to people who own a DS; it just has different games than PSP, and both have about an equal number of games anyway.

I also had a GBP and GBC growing up at about the right times in their lives, but... eh they don't count. They were way behind the times anyway.

But yeah (back on topic

) I'm sure with a good compiler and proper optimization flags developers should be able to get a lot out of PS3 using relatively high level code (think C, C++...), which should keep things pretty easy.

Verence · Post by **Verence** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:11 pm

I think what Q said might have been misconstrued. >_>

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:30 pm

Yeah. I started getting that feeling at some point too. Not sure exactly when.

RurouniQ · Post by **RurouniQ** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:23 pm

...

You people have no sense of humor.

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:49 pm

What? I did think the "statement" made by the developer in your message was pretty funny...and true.

RurouniQ · Post by **RurouniQ** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:19 am

Uhhhhhhhhhhh... no, it was a joke. Get over yourself.

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:15 pm

RurouniQ wrote:Uhhhhhhhhhhh... no, it was a joke. Get over yourself.

Wow, Q, even if it was a joke, you're trying to be rather...bitchy? Toward Mecha now.

bmdubya · Post by **bmdubya** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:25 pm

I don't really like fanboys. I think some might label me as a Xbox fanboy, but the reason why I like it so much is because it has the games I like on it, and I really like Xbox Live. I don't hate Sony or Nintendo. If I had the money, I would have all three consoles, but since I can only afford one right now, I got a 360. I may look like a fanboy with the Xbox logo in my avatar, but I really am not. I can't stand the people though that are insane fanboys, like buying PS3s so they can smash them and video tape it. That is ridiculous.

Ok with that aside, I don't understand what the big deal is about making it easy or hard to develop games for consoles. I'm sure that all three of the consoles aren't just really easy to develop for, but not like insane. But like Break said, the PS3 may never have to use all of its power to run a game. If it did, it may be towards the end of the life cycle when developers have been working with it 5+ years.

One last thing, I have been wondering about the way the Xbox is built. The thing that I did to fix my Xbox was take the "x"-clamps off that is holding the heatsinks onto the mother board and replaced them with my own screws. The thing about the "x"-clamps were when the heatsinks got hot, it made the spacer between the "x"-clamps and the motherboard become obsolete and put pressure on the motherboard, causing a bend in it. I am wondering if Microsoft did this on purpose so that people's consoles would fail and they would have to get them fixed.

Mericks · Post by **Mericks** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:04 pm

bmdubya wrote:I don't really like fanboys. I think some might label me as a Xbox fanboy, but the reason why I like it so much is because it has the games I like on it, and I really like Xbox Live. I don't hate Sony or Nintendo. If I had the money, I would have all three consoles, but since I can only afford one right now, I got a 360. I may look like a fanboy with the Xbox logo in my avatar, but I really am not. I can't stand the people though that are insane fanboys, like buying PS3s so they can smash them and video tape it. That is ridiculous.

Ok with that aside, I don't understand what the big deal is about making it easy or hard to develop games for consoles. I'm sure that all three of the consoles aren't just really easy to develop for, but not like insane. But like Break said, the PS3 may never have to use all of its power to run a game. If it did, it may be towards the end of the life cycle when developers have been working with it 5+ years.

One last thing, I have been wondering about the way the Xbox is built. The thing that I did to fix my Xbox was take the "x"-clamps off that is holding the heatsinks onto the mother board and replaced them with my own screws. The thing about the "x"-clamps were when the heatsinks got hot, it made the spacer between the "x"-clamps and the motherboard become obsolete and put pressure on the motherboard, causing a bend in it. I am wondering if Microsoft did this on purpose so that people's consoles would fail and they would have to get them fixed.

Right off the bat, I did see this guy give a presentation on games in November and I can state that he's not a fanboy. He even had a list of his top 10 games that I read too (I won't list my disagreement with the list though since people will hate me...and I don't remember the entire list).

As far as how easy consoles are to dev for, reportedly, the Wii is super easy to dev for (and has cheapass dev kits) due to the fact that it's parts are constructed and operate similarly to the Gamecubes. The 360 should be easy to dev for as well seeing as devs have had a year with it already, and when we get to the PS3 we'll assume it's easy despite the fact that we probably won't be able to settle an argument here.