Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:05 pm
Word!Verence wrote:Minority? Seems like Tool fans are the majority to me.
Not a complaint or anything, just an observation.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:22 am
That was a real interesting series of posts there little one... well worth the short amount of time it took to read them.
I haven't heard the new album and I don't intend to hear it until I feel that I'm ready to do so.
What struck me about this (among other things) was the reference to the rosetta stone - particularly since this is an area of history I've been exploring this year. I'd never really thought of applying the idea to music before, but it makes a great deal of sense.
One of the things that I find interesting about Tool as a band is that I don't feel that I understand everything that they are saying... their music raises more questions for me than most, so I have to think awhile before my reasoning catches up with my emotional response.
Tool isn't the only band that does this, they just do it more consistently.
I have a tendency to internalise things so, for me, a lot of what Tool says in their music can be applied to the division within yourself. But I think it's true to say that those people who have even a vague understanding of ... well, you tend to be able to recognise something in each other.
When I was at College doing my A-levels I used the term 'deadheads' to describe most of the people that I knew. They lacked something. I'm not claiming to have that something within myself, or even to understand what it is exactly... but I can sure as hell recognise it in other people.
And... you can be a fan of something without understanding it.
I haven't heard the new album and I don't intend to hear it until I feel that I'm ready to do so.
What struck me about this (among other things) was the reference to the rosetta stone - particularly since this is an area of history I've been exploring this year. I'd never really thought of applying the idea to music before, but it makes a great deal of sense.
One of the things that I find interesting about Tool as a band is that I don't feel that I understand everything that they are saying... their music raises more questions for me than most, so I have to think awhile before my reasoning catches up with my emotional response.
Tool isn't the only band that does this, they just do it more consistently.
I have a tendency to internalise things so, for me, a lot of what Tool says in their music can be applied to the division within yourself. But I think it's true to say that those people who have even a vague understanding of ... well, you tend to be able to recognise something in each other.
When I was at College doing my A-levels I used the term 'deadheads' to describe most of the people that I knew. They lacked something. I'm not claiming to have that something within myself, or even to understand what it is exactly... but I can sure as hell recognise it in other people.
And... you can be a fan of something without understanding it.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:45 am
one point I'd like to make clear, I wasn't talking about the messages in their songs, those have different meanings, as long as that meaning is positive, and it helps you in some way, thats when you understand, thats when you get the message, for example, parabola can mean one thing to me, and another to you, its all about how you take it to mean.LikkleBaer wrote:That was a real interesting series of posts there little one... well worth the short amount of time it took to read them.
I haven't heard the new album and I don't intend to hear it until I feel that I'm ready to do so.
What struck me about this (among other things) was the reference to the rosetta stone - particularly since this is an area of history I've been exploring this year. I'd never really thought of applying the idea to music before, but it makes a great deal of sense.
One of the things that I find interesting about Tool as a band is that I don't feel that I understand everything that they are saying... their music raises more questions for me than most, so I have to think awhile before my reasoning catches up with my emotional response.
Tool isn't the only band that does this, they just do it more consistently.
I have a tendency to internalise things so, for me, a lot of what Tool says in their music can be applied to the division within yourself. But I think it's true to say that those people who have even a vague understanding of ... well, you tend to be able to recognise something in each other.
When I was at College doing my A-levels I used the term 'deadheads' to describe most of the people that I knew. They lacked something. I'm not claiming to have that something within myself, or even to understand what it is exactly... but I can sure as hell recognise it in other people.
And... you can be a fan of something without understanding it.
What I was talking about in the message, is not the music, but the way the band works, the themes of the albums in general, the feel they have. the gap, for example, you have a fan of the music right. ok, now that fan just wants to listen to the music, not take the message the band gives, they are on one side of the gap. [never said they weren't a fan]. Now , you have another person, who tries to understand what the message is that is being told to them through the music, that certain message might not be the same for everyone, It can even be different to each individual member of the band.. it all has to do with experience, all the band asks is that you listen to what they have to say. they will not tell you the answer, that is your job to come up with one yourself and use that to move on. this message to me is most apparent on the new album. Tool has stepped back even farther to see who was just sackriding them and not truly taking away from the music, taking a positive thing, and going with that, not having to be fed anything.
We are the ears and legs for the band, they are the messengers, they tell us, its up to us to hear it, find out what that message means to us, and walk to that place.
I repled like this, because after reading the last line of your post, I don't know where you got that becasue I never said anything about being a fan.. anyone can be a fan of anything.. i was just saying how far you take it determines which side of the gap you are on. nothing more, and nothing less.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:42 am
Just bought 10,000 Days, like it a lot.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:10 am
The fan thing wasn't directed at your post Triad darlin' - Verence made a comment that
I forget that other people don't know what I mean most of the time.
Anyway... I'm interested to hear the new album in this light, and I'd like to debate this stuff with you sometime ^_^
which I think he meant in reference to people here... but when I thought about it, most of the people that I come into contact with online are Tool 'fans' but I wouldn't say that all of them understood, or cared for that matter.Minority? Seems like Tool fans are the majority to me
I forget that other people don't know what I mean most of the time.
Anyway... I'm interested to hear the new album in this light, and I'd like to debate this stuff with you sometime ^_^
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:42 am
hell yeah man, the album is great. how are you liking the artwork?Realm wrote:Just bought 10,000 Days, like it a lot.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:42 am
I look forward to that.LikkleBaer wrote:The fan thing wasn't directed at your post Triad darlin' - Verence made a comment thatwhich I think he meant in reference to people here... but when I thought about it, most of the people that I come into contact with online are Tool 'fans' but I wouldn't say that all of them understood, or cared for that matter.Minority? Seems like Tool fans are the majority to me
I forget that other people don't know what I mean most of the time.
Anyway... I'm interested to hear the new album in this light, and I'd like to debate this stuff with you sometime ^_^
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:07 pm
Liked the artwork a lot, especially the photos of the bandmembers.
btw, you all might find this interesting: http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php ... ness_first
Notice that Maynard is holding a glass of wine in his 10,000 Days picture.
btw, you all might find this interesting: http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php ... ness_first
Notice that Maynard is holding a glass of wine in his 10,000 Days picture.
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:54 pm
yep, knew about that when http://caduceus.org/ first came up. I think its cool that he is such a "Wine Connoisseur". Thinking about getting some for collection purposes when he starts seeling it from the website.Realm wrote:Liked the artwork a lot, especially the photos of the bandmembers.
btw, you all might find this interesting: http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php ... ness_first
Notice that Maynard is holding a glass of wine in his 10,000 Days picture.
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:33 pm
He's not really putting the winery first, its just that he wants to be involved and it is really time sensitive.
I finally got a chance to read all this, and I must say that I do agree with some of it. Especially the Schism and the idea of being on both sides of the gap.
There was an ancient form of Christianity called Gnosticism that the Catholic church wiped out. It held the idea that there was a perfect world (heaven) with a head God then small Gods. One of the smaller gods got upset at not being in control and made his own world. He created Earth, and was in control of it. They see this God (Y) as the God of the old Testament/Hebrew Bible. They consider him basically evil. Jesus was the bodily form of the son of the God Sophia (Sophia means wisdom) and was sent to Earth to convery the message that we are trapped in a prison. Every one has a spark/piece of the gods (our soul) which is basically our inner divinity. Once you find your self, your true self and inner divinity, then you go through Gnosis. You know. Once you know then you can be set free of this world and prison and ascend to the Godly world. It isn't a unique idea, and is widely shared among many religions based on inner divinity. I see many parallelisms is these forms of thought. They were also based in Egypt.. so Rosetta Stoned.
It does fit in with Maynard's view of Jesus as a wise man.. and not a God. There is prolly some truth in some religions, and they tend to take what they think is correct from them to make their own.
I finally got a chance to read all this, and I must say that I do agree with some of it. Especially the Schism and the idea of being on both sides of the gap.
There was an ancient form of Christianity called Gnosticism that the Catholic church wiped out. It held the idea that there was a perfect world (heaven) with a head God then small Gods. One of the smaller gods got upset at not being in control and made his own world. He created Earth, and was in control of it. They see this God (Y) as the God of the old Testament/Hebrew Bible. They consider him basically evil. Jesus was the bodily form of the son of the God Sophia (Sophia means wisdom) and was sent to Earth to convery the message that we are trapped in a prison. Every one has a spark/piece of the gods (our soul) which is basically our inner divinity. Once you find your self, your true self and inner divinity, then you go through Gnosis. You know. Once you know then you can be set free of this world and prison and ascend to the Godly world. It isn't a unique idea, and is widely shared among many religions based on inner divinity. I see many parallelisms is these forms of thought. They were also based in Egypt.. so Rosetta Stoned.
It does fit in with Maynard's view of Jesus as a wise man.. and not a God. There is prolly some truth in some religions, and they tend to take what they think is correct from them to make their own.