NEW COMPUTER!

Juan The Pirate · Post by **Juan The Pirate** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:48 pm

Yeah, you have that correct, when I say 200 x 4 and 200 x2 it means this.

The bus sizes have not gone above 200 (at least in safe operation, some boards allow you to run at 233).

It's double data rate (DDR same, principal as the ram) and quadruple data rate in the case of the P4's with the 800 MHZ FSB.

What does this mean to you, in primitive CPU calculations you will recieve 2x the speed from your P4 chip then your athlon chip. The problem is, most computer processes don't use only the processor. You are using all kinds of things, so in reality, you're hindered by the slowest component needed by that process.

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:55 pm

ok i some what see what you are saying.

phylof · Post by **phylof** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:01 pm

I am currently piecing together my new PC, and I am going to go with Athlon. I have 2 athlons right now and have had no problems with them. Another component you should consider is the video card. The whole NVidia vs. ATI war and stuff.

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:08 pm

Three configurations,as you can see i downgraded some stuff, Which in your opinion is the most effective for Games?(sry 4 asking so many times, this will be the last)

Intel P4
FIC VL13, SATA Raid, S.478, 533/800FSB, Audio/LAN, DDR333/400, Retail Box
Intel Pentium™ 4 2.80GHz HT 512K 800FSB S.478 Retail Box
512MB DDR400 PC3200 Non-ECC Samsung
80Gb Serial ATA Maxtor 8Mb 7200rpm
AGP (8x) ATI RADEON 9200 256Mb DDR Dual Head/TV/DVI OEM
52 X Mitsumi IDE Black CD-Rom OEM
RaidmaX CP868S Black MidTower 420W P.S. w/2 Front USB
2x Case Cooling Fans
Microsoft Windows XP Home

AMD Athlon™ XP
ECS AF1, SATA Raid, S.462, 333/400FSB, Audio/LAN, DDR333/400, Retail Box
AMD Athlon™ XP 3000+ Barton 640K 333FSB OEM
Thermaltake Volcano 9 Socket A Variable Fan Speed Control
512MB DDR400 PC3200 Non-ECC Samsung
80Gb Serial ATA Maxtor 8Mb 7200rpm
AGP (8x) ATI RADEON 9200 256Mb DDR Dual Head/TV/DVI OEM
52 X Mitsumi IDE Black CD-Rom OEM
RaidmaX CP868S Black MidTower 420W P.S. w/2 Front USB
2x Case Cooling Fans
Microsoft Windows XP Home

AMD Athlon™ 64
Gigabyte GA-K8VT800M SATA Raid, S.754, 800FSB, Audio/LAN, DDR333/400, Retail Box
AMD Athlon™ 64 3000+ 512K 800FSB Retail Box w/Fan
512MB DDR400 PC3200 Non-ECC Samsung
80Gb Serial ATA Maxtor 8Mb 7200rpm
AGP (8x) ATI RADEON 9200 256Mb DDR Dual Head/TV/DVI OEM
52 X Mitsumi IDE Black CD-Rom OEM
RaidmaX CP868S Black MidTower 420W P.S. w/2 Front USB
2x Case Cooling Fans
Microsoft Windows XP Home

Realm · Post by **Realm** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:13 am

Athlon 64... *drools*

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:03 am

ok then, NEXT! lol.

Realm · Post by **Realm** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:18 pm

The 3 big factors with pc gaming hardware are in order as follows: video card, CPU, RAM. One shitty one and two good ones, and your games will still suck. All I'm saying is, there's no sense buying a $400 CPU if you've got a $100 video card. Power through Balance. I am curious why you chose the Radeon 9200 in all those configurations.

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:57 pm

I was trying to keep them even. and none of those CPU's are $400.

And why, Is that a bad video card? are you suggesting I get a better card?
maybe like: eVGA GeForce FX 5600 XT 256Mb DDR TV/DVI Retail Box or ATI RADEON 9600 256Mb DDR Dual Head/TV/DVI OEM? Would you be so kind and maybe suggest a video card.

Silviar · Post by **Silviar** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:10 pm

If we could only bootleg video cards and other computer parts the way you can anime from Japan... Oh, the possibilities...

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:29 pm

would this be better in your opinion then the ones listed above?

http://store.yahoo.com/logicalplus/msifxgefx25d.html

Realm · Post by **Realm** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:07 pm

Deadman wrote:none of those CPU's are $400

Oh, no, it was just an example. As far as the video card, I'm no expert, but GeForce FX 5700 or 5700 Ultra or Radeon 9600 Pro or XT would be what I would buy. (and I may very soon) 'Course, always get a 2nd opinion. Also, about CPU's, I'm running an AMD Athlon XP, and I'm not planning on upgrading anytime soon. As much as I've love to have an Athlon 64 or 64 FX, any spare cash will go towards a video card, sound card, or a new moniter.

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:16 pm

oh. ok well i will have to keep looking for that second opinion i guess.

Juan The Pirate · Post by **Juan The Pirate** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:28 pm

Here it is.

You are correct. I think I made the analogy before about the computer processing speed is only as fast as every component used. Though with vid cards, the routes get a little tricky. With a video card, you want the best you can get at all times, which is stupid, so my guidelines for a video card would be 256 mem, and DX9 support. Why? Because vid processing power is entirely up to you. Since you want a pure gaming computer, I would get a top of the line video card, it will be better then the others. Will you notice the difference? It depends on how much of an afficiando on graphics you are. There are differences, but if you don't pay attention to every little detail about video, then you might miss the differences.

Example:

When dealing with hooking your DVD player up, you have 3 options: AV cables, S-Video, and Component Video. Each one's DPI levels are 100, 200, 400 respectively. Is there a difference between each one? Yes, a very big difference. Will you notice it? Not likely, especially not if you are limited by the quality of the DVD. You may notice the difference when you are using a Superbit DVD, but not a remastered classic DVD.

The same goes for gaming, if the game isn't designed to test the boundries of video processing, you aren't going to notice the difference between video cards.

64-bit consumer processors

64 bit processors are nothing new, they have been around for quite a while, but they are just now coming to the public. Meaning, you will see no advantage between a 64 and a 32 clocked at the same speed. In all reality, you will only be using half the bandwidth of your processor, because that is all the programs are designed to use. I toyed with the idea of gettiing one, but my decision was to wait until Longhorn is released. By then, it will be seen if 64-bit's are a hit in the consumer market.

My 4 cents, save money by not buying a clawhammer, and use it to get a better video card. The video card is the component that will become obsolete the quickest.

Evilmagicpirate · Post by **Evilmagicpirate** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:09 pm

I second what has been said here. Don't go to Athlon64 yet.. Especially with the Athlon 'Newcastle' set to hit the market in Q1 next year. The Newcastle to the AMD64 is like the Celeron to the Pentium.. Same chip but with half the L2 cache. This makes the chip much much cheaper - and still have very good performance plus all the perks of the 64-bit (which at the moment is basically none).
However, the real reason to not buy top-of-the-line equipment right now is that in about 6 months AMD and Intel are going to be releasing radically different motherboards that will be incompatable with most of todays technology. So if you want you're investment to have a long life in respect to an upgrade path then you're best bet might be to wait 6 months or just by cheaper stuff now.
The most major changes for AMD are:
Changing the pin out form the 7xx spec to the new 9xx spec, thus increasing bandwidth to the chips. This is bad for you however because the processor you buy today wont fit in the socket of any motherboards you buy in the future.
Futhermore, the removal of PCI and AGP, its all going PCI-Xpress. So any peripheral cards you have will become obsolete. Although, it is likely that motherboards will keep shipping with atleast an AGP slot for some time after the said changes.
Removing Parrallel ATA IDE controllers - its all going to be SATA from then on. However converters cost <$5 so its not a huge issue, except you have to buy then power one convertor for each IDE device you own.
Intel are going to DDR2-ram in mid-2004, AMD are making the move in early 2005. Not a huge problem, for a period we will see boards supporting both types of ram, similar to when we switched from SDR to DDR. But it is something to keep in mind.

So all that being said, dont go spending $250 on the top of the line motherboard, when a $75 will give you marginally less performance but will give you a shitload higher cost/performance ratio. While I can't give you a specific reccomendation for a good mobo, look around and read the reviews and post here before you commit any cash to anything..

As for a processor, a AMD 2500/2600 barton core is the best with price/performance ratio.. these chips can be O/Ced to a 3200 with a little extra cooling. This should be the processor you buy - no reason to pay extra for a 3200, when the 2600 is exactly the same chip just clocked slower by AMD to fill demand.

Futhermore, your video card is the biggest bottleneck for any 3D gaming. More so than your processor. Currently the best bang for your buck is probably a Radeon 9800 (non-pro, non-se, non-XT). These are avaliable on Newegg (by gigacube/gexcube [same company]) and can easily be O/C to a 9800 Pro.. I have one in a box under the tree for me to open on Xmas.

Failing that, go for a 9600 Pro or Xt - I can garantee that you won't be satisfied with the 9200.. Thats an entry level card made for computer that want to run windows 3D screensavers - no for games.

As for ram, get the fastest you can afford. Probably atleast 2700 [EDIT: 3200]. And if you decide on 512mb, get it in two sticks of 256 as this will yeild better performance. Also, stick to name brand stuff and try to get stuff with good latency and timings.

If you're buying through newegg, take note of the customers reviews and they will tell you so much good infomation about the praticular product and its overclockability.

Deadman · Post by **Deadman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:52 pm

very intresting, I may just wait, considering then I would have much more money. Even tho all of it won't go into the PC, but probably most would.

*thinks-*i hate this peice of shit*

I will have to research the releases for the new product that Evilmagicpirate spoke of.

I will post any new info.